Curse

FengShuiDove · Jul 31, 2010, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel Killuminati

Oh so you want it to be maintained all in one slot.

Do you like to be spoon fed too in real life btw?

The avatars are all terrible compared to the sustainable DPS of almost any other halfway decent physical build. If Dervish wants to be competitive, it needs to be able to deal damage without a crapload of setup, ie a 2 second cast Avatar and another mostly worthless PvE slot. That not only robs from bar compression, but steals an essential skill slot to keep your elite worthwhile more than half the time.

You must be a big dervish player, and therefore enjoy playing a terrible profession that is outclassed in every way by the other physicals and even Ranger. Being competitive isn't being spoon fed. Balance isn't a crutch. So get the hell out until you learn what those things mean.

belshazaarswrath · Jul 31, 2010, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

You must be a big dervish player, and therefore enjoy playing a terrible profession that is outclassed in every way by the other physicals and even Ranger.

I wouldn't go that far...

jazilla · Jul 31, 2010, 10:09 PM // 22:09

change a few of the enchantments that if stripped would totally defeat the builds to skills only. that would fix a ton for dervs. may not be what they intended, but i doubt they intended dervs to ever be this bad at any point in this game's life cycle.

Yelling @ Cats · Aug 01, 2010, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel Killuminati

Oh so you want it to be maintained all in one slot.

Do you like to be spoon fed too in real life btw?

So you want to take 2 bad skills just to maintain one of the bad skills?

Do you like to be anally fed too in real life btw?

Yelling @ Cats · Aug 01, 2010, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

If you want to get Survivor, I'd suggest using a Monk.

na, better off taking 8 dervish and spamming victorious sweep according to this dude

monks are dumb

belshazaarswrath · Aug 01, 2010, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

So you want to take 2 bad skills just to maintain one of the bad skills?

Do you like to be anally fed too in real life btw?

I feel like that's a poor metaphor...

jazilla · Aug 01, 2010, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

So you want to take 2 bad skills just to maintain one of the bad skills?

Do you like to be anally fed too in real life btw?

way to bring nothing constructive to the thread.

Steps_Descending · Aug 01, 2010, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

way to bring nothing constructive to the thread.

You're too harsh. Now THAT is unconstructive :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

na, better off taking 8 dervish and spamming victorious sweep according to this dude

monks are dumb

Too bad the poor boy forgot to mention that was called taking some pressure off the monk.

reaper with no name · Aug 01, 2010, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

I wouldn't go that far...

Yeah. It's only the two other melee physicals that do it. Dervishes can beat Rangers in straight out dps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

Too bad the poor boy forgot to mention that was called taking some pressure off the monk.

The best way to take stress off a monk is to kill whatever it is that is applying the stress. Victorious Sweep is not the best way to do it.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 01, 2010, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Yeah. It's only the two other melee physicals that do it. Dervishes can beat Rangers in straight out dps.

By a longshot. But if they were dealing the same amount of damage you'd know that somethings wrong. Either rangers were dealing WAY too much damage or Dervishes were dealing WAY WAY WAY too little.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

The best way to take stress off a monk is to kill whatever it is that is applying the stress. Victorious Sweep is not the best way to do it.

This is true but the skill is decent. I mean it won't save your ass in a fight but there are far worse things you could bring.

reaper with no name · Aug 01, 2010, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

By a longshot. But if they were dealing the same amount of damage you'd know that somethings wrong. Either rangers were dealing WAY too much damage or Dervishes were dealing WAY WAY WAY too little.

This is true but the skill is decent. I mean it won't save your ass in a fight but there are far worse things you could bring.

Sadly, it's not by very much. It's been a while since I did the comparison, though.

Agreed. I'd call Victorious Sweep maybe the 4th best nonelite scythe attack, the 3rd being Protector's Strike (yep, even at 0 strength...it's that good).

HigherMinion · Aug 01, 2010, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Agreed. I'd call Victorious Sweep maybe the 4th best nonelite scythe attack, the 3rd being Protector's Strike (yep, even at 0 strength...it's that good).

Protector'sstrikesomeleeattack?

I know what you mean, just thought I'd be unconstructive.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 01, 2010, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Sadly, it's not by very much. It's been a while since I did the comparison, though.

Agreed. I'd call Victorious Sweep maybe the 4th best nonelite scythe attack, the 3rd being Protector's Strike (yep, even at 0 strength...it's that good).

Eh when I use my derv he generally deals more damage with his scythe than a ranger does with his bow. Then again if I give my ranger a scythe he tends to deal around the same damage...

Any one second cast time attack skill is excellent just because of that.

Angel Killuminati · Aug 01, 2010, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

You must be a big dervish player, and therefore enjoy playing a terrible profession that is outclassed in every way by the other physicals and even Ranger. Being competitive isn't being spoon fed. Balance isn't a crutch. So get the hell out until you learn what those things mean.

Our survey said, ehh awww! Nope, I have no Dervish.

Nechrond · Aug 02, 2010, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Ok, let's say you have 600 Hp and 3 enemies are balled up on you. Let's say they hit you once every second. Let's say that you have protective spirit on you (and no healers, since we're talking about a near-wipe situation here). That means that every second you're taking 180 damage. A 249 Hp heal every 4 seconds will not save you (or even keep you alive for long). And the lower your Hp is to begin with, the less likely it is that you'll be able to qualify for the heal anyway (which is what I meant with the endure pain comment: more chance for triggering it, making warriors better suited to using victorious sweep's healing potential). And while having fewer enemies on you would mean less damage taken, it would also mean less damage healed, so the result is the same (most likely, death before Victorious Sweep can even be used).

The point I'm trying to make here is, Victorious Sweep does not make a dervish some kind of super tough melee character that can also do lots of damage, and it certainly is not powerful enough to give the dervish a niche in PvE, which is sort of what all this is about. No one in their right mind thinks the dervish isn't good enough to get through the game. The problem is that there's always something better you could take.

You misunderstand me. I just wanted to point out that going primary Derv does have some advantages over secondary. I never meant to say that it's a better choice - but it's not all downsides either. And some of the advantages, though valuable in AB (which is what I play most), are minor in PvE - but that doesn't mean they're not there.
And yes, I would like to see some buffs for the Derv as well. I did suggest some.

@Whoever said I forgot to mention that Victorious Sweep takes pressure off the monk: Not so much forget, just that that's pretty much the point of self-heals in PvE.

Targren · Aug 02, 2010, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

Because you clearly don't know what it takes to make big updates with the small team Anet has.

Why do people keep bringing up that point as if it's an excuse? It was Anet's[0] decision to take almost all of the devs off of the live product in favor of "the next big thing" which MIGHT be out next year (what's that, like 2, 3 years late?). It's a perfectly legitimate complaint to call them out on the consequences of that decision.

[0] Most likely management, not the devs themselves.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 02, 2010, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

Why do people keep bringing up that point as if it's an excuse? It was Anet's[0] decision to take almost all of the devs off of the live product in favor of "the next big thing" which MIGHT be out next year (what's that, like 2, 3 years late?). It's a perfectly legitimate complaint to call them out on the consequences of that decision.

[0] Most likely management, not the devs themselves.

Yes because I'm sure everyone would rather have 4 people working on Guild Wars 2 and have the rest of the staff working on a game that's on its last legs anyway. That way we can look forward to having Guild Wars 2 sometime between our colonization of Mars and the Universes eventual demise.

NerfHerder · Aug 03, 2010, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

Why do people keep bringing up that point as if it's an excuse? It was Anet's[0] decision to take almost all of the devs off of the live product in favor of "the next big thing" which MIGHT be out next year (what's that, like 2, 3 years late?). It's a perfectly legitimate complaint to call them out on the consequences of that decision.

[0] Most likely management, not the devs themselves.

I hate to do it, but I agree. I'm not saying its Anets fault. If it were up to ANet Im sure they would have more people working on GW1, and not sacrifice GW2 developement. I blame NCsoft if anyone, whats the point in belonging to a large corporation if you cant use thier resources? They have deep enough pockets to get more help for GW1. And they should understand that the current state of the game will be reflective on potential customers in the future. Also, to make sure dedicated fans(like myself and most people in this forum) are confident about Anet's ability to keep a game fresh and exciting. Judging by the current state of GW1, 1-2 years after the release of GW2 the game could become stagnant because they are working on the next expansion.

OT: This talk of scythe skills makes me want dervishes to move away from generic attack spamming. Assassins can do that better and I dont mind if they do. One option would be to make enchantment juggling a viable option. However, reaper and others have pointed out what an uphill battle this would be to compete with attack skill spamming. How about turning some(mostly in the Mysticism line to prevent exploitation) of those enchantments into undefined or untyped skills? Then you could minimize casting times and aftercast delays associated with enchantment juggling. With some intelligent skill tweaking this could allow the Dervish to deal PBAoE spikes comparable to an attack spammer.

reaper with no name · Aug 03, 2010, 03:09 AM // 03:09

When your spikes can only compete with the competitions' dps, guess what? You're useless. For spikes to be useful, by definition they have to provide considerably more dps than dps for at least a little while. It's probably not the best way to do it. DPS is king in PvE.

But the idea has floated around in my head before. The real advantage of removing cast times and aftercast delays (regardless of how you do it) is that you don't need to make the numbers nearly as high to get the same results (which would make it more palatable). However, it also means that everything has to be even more spammable.

Skye Marin · Aug 03, 2010, 03:51 PM // 15:51

I know that attack spam is king in PvE, and tons of people are suggesting that we nerf how other people use the scythe to even things out. I say that's a bad idea, and instead suggest ways that the Dervish can be better without nerfing older builds. Please note these are all PvE buffs:

First up, scythe attacks:

Eremite's Attack - This skill recharges instantly if it hits a foe and you have Mysticism greater than 4.

Mystic Sweep - This skill recharges instantly if if it hits a foe and you have Mysticism greater than 4.

Irresistible Sweep - Now removes one Dervish Enchantment. Recharges instantly if a dervish enchantment is removed.

Reaper's Sweep - Lower recharge to 2. Deep wound at 75%.

The 3/4 attacks are now the best on the Dervish, as they instantly recharge when they hit. It's still susceptible to blind and block, so it's the player's choice if they want one or both of the attack skills on their bar. Irresistible is a good choice for "instant recharge on Dervish Enchantment removal" which will fuel enchantment juggling on a newly buffed Earth Prayers line. Reaper's is now in line with Wounding strike, as it does plenty of damage, and the enchantment removal is very useful in PvE.

Next is IAS:

Onslaught - Increase IAS and IMS to 33%, lower recharge to 5, lose 10 energy if you have Mysticism 4 or lower.

Pious Fury - Increased duration to 3..10. Renews itself whenever an enchantment ends on you.

This gives a good damage boost for the Wind Prayer line. Onslaught is more ready and stronger, but not impossibly out of reach of other professions. Pious Fury now is recharged with any ending enchantments and a longer recharge instead of stripping them itself for a set duration. This will help enchantment-juggling by speeding up the spamability of strip-attacks, with it renewing itself.

Next up, Avatars:

Lyssa - Also when striking attacking foes, it's an automatic critical strike.

Balthazar - Attack skills cause burning to all nearby foes for 0..3 seconds.

Grenth - Life steal increased to 5..35.

Dwayna - When an enchantment ends on you, the party gains 5..15 health.

Melandru - When an enchantment ends on you, your party loses one condition. Lower cost to 10.

All these effects are in addition to their current forms, for PvE-only. Skills cast too fast in HM for Lyssa to be effective all the time, so crits are rewarded to hitting attacking foes while bonus damage is still awarded to landing hits on casting foes. Balthazar gives a good amount of damage with a nearby burning, which is pretty spammy too; a welcome addition to any group. Grenth gets a boost in damage to match the other avatars. Dwayna can heal the party through juggling, and Melandru does the same with conditions. A lower cost makes it more approachable.

My other non PvE-only suggestions can be found here:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...date_-_Dervish

Let me know if I'm crazy.